<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1541</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/21/99 4:12:11 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 21 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1541<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
RE: SF Trav game<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
War of 1812, xFW, nTh IW<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
Re: Scumbags<BR>
CoastCon (was: Re: SF Trav game)<BR>
The Death of Q<BR>
Calendar compliance<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
Re: The Death of Q<BR>
Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: The Death of Q<BR>
RE: Ethnicity<BR>
Re: War of 1812<BR>
Re: San Francisco Trav game<BR>
Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
Re: War of 1812<BR>
Re: Calendar compliance<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:59:43 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
And me a Sharks fan, bro'!  ;)<BR>
Jesse<BR>
(best friend of Todd, aka Tascelt)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
Tascelt@aol.com<BR>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:12 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/20/1999 9:49:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,<BR>
frankie@mundens.gen.nz writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<<BR>
 The real reason for the US launching the war was that they thought the<BR>
 Canadian colonies would be an easy mark with Britain busy on the continent.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
OK OK, I have to finnally admit it.  The American invasion of Britain's<BR>
Canadian territories was an evil plot.  America wanted to grab Canada before<BR>
it bacame an independent nation in order to prevent Hockey from being<BR>
invented!!  The plot failed completely, and now the sport has infested even<BR>
the climates of Florida and Los Angles.  OOOOHHHHH history!!!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:13:11 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: RE: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
On 12/20/99 at 10:33 PM,  Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Memorial Day Weekend is BayCon, IIRC, so the game oughta' be there.  Not<BR>
>to mention Doug is hosting a Strephon Silver Jubilee party.  Bring armor<BR>
>and guns (props of course :) as it should be fun!<BR>
<BR>
Just imagine the entire TML descending on San Francisco!  Okay, so the<BR>
locals wouldn't notice.  <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:26:31 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 12/20/99 at 10:33 PM,  Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Memorial Day Weekend is BayCon, IIRC, so the game oughta' be there.  Not<BR>
> >to mention Doug is hosting a Strephon Silver Jubilee party.  Bring armor<BR>
> >and guns (props of course :) as it should be fun!<BR>
> <BR>
> Just imagine the entire TML descending on San Francisco!  Okay, so the<BR>
> locals wouldn't notice.  <g><BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
IIRC, BayCon is held in San Jose (at least it was in 1985, when I<BR>
attended).<BR>
<BR>
If there will be a significant TML presence there, I'll have to try to<BR>
come up with the funding to attend myself.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, for those of us in the Gulf South, there's always CoastCon,<BR>
in March 2000....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:30:20 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: War of 1812, xFW, nTh IW<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, as Bruce has pointed out, the United States had resolved it's<BR>
>issues before the war began.<BR>
><BR>
No. The US negotiated terms with the brittish AFTER the war began, but well<BR>
before it's end. One of the concessions was that HM RN would cease<BR>
impressing persons from US vessels. Pressing from ships underway was NOT<BR>
common; pressing sailors in port was common. Prior to the War of 1812, His<BR>
Majesty's Government did not recognize American Independance De Jure; that<BR>
they had accepted it De Facto didn't mean normalized relations. BTW, the<BR>
war was 4 years from first battle to last; 1812 was in the middle.<BR>
<BR>
>The real reason for the US launching the war was that they thought the<BR>
>Canadian colonies would be an easy mark with Britain busy on the continent.<BR>
<BR>
A goal that had been abortively attempted prior; not mentioned at all in<BR>
the declaration of war. The US goal, if any were set, was recognition AS A<BR>
GOVERNMENT; cessation of pressing US sailors AT SEA was recognition that<BR>
they were under the flag of a nation, not a brittish colony. Brittain had<BR>
been defending their actions by claiming that the US was, in fact, not a<BR>
state, but 13 rebellious colonies.<BR>
<BR>
>What makes you think it didn't demonstrate "Staying power"<BR>
<BR>
Item: The Brittish formally recognized the US.<BR>
Item: The brittish raided, but did not attempt to take, US Cities.<BR>
Item: The Brittish did not mobilize their army in any great force.<BR>
Item: The proof that HMRN was, in fact, not the be-all and end-all of seapower<BR>
<BR>
>>and in not losing Canada.<BR>
><BR>
>>Instead of calling it a draw one might accurately state that both<BR>
>> sides were victorious in that they got what they wanted.<BR>
><BR>
Quite literally, it was a PR coup for the US; while merchant shipping to<BR>
and from the US may have been slowed to a trickle (some blockade running<BR>
did occur), it did not prevent the US from projecting force on the seas,<BR>
all the way to Tripoli. This last is memorialized by the new branch of the<BR>
US military which was raised due to the war in their hymn: "From the Halls<BR>
of Montezuma,/ to the Shores of Tripoli / We will fight our country's<BR>
battles / On the land as on the sea." Yes, Uncle Sam's Musket and Cutlas,<BR>
Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, the US Marine Corps. The war also served to<BR>
unify the colonies at a time where framentation seemed immanent. If nothing<BR>
else, the internal changes brought about by the War of 1812 were as<BR>
important as the recognition by HMG.<BR>
<BR>
That the US forces fought as well as they did started a breakdown of the<BR>
Status Quo in Europe, as well.<BR>
<BR>
Fundamentally a war is fought for some form of gain. For brittain, there<BR>
was not enough force to be brought to bear IN TIME, at LOW ENOUGH COST, for<BR>
them to conttinue the fighting. For the US, until they could establish that<BR>
they were, in fact, not just a rebelious colony, but a nation-state of<BR>
their own, they were not taken seriously (France being notable in the<BR>
exception, but france had other reasons, specifically, keeping Brittain off<BR>
their own back, for encouraging the US vs UK interactions). By getting the<BR>
concessions from brittain (by far a cheaper solution than retaking the 13<BR>
colonies or indefinite blockade, especially since cotton and tobacco were<BR>
major Brittish imports), the US enforced enough political will to gain<BR>
recognition.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: The Frontier Wars are, quite obviously, NOT about territorial<BR>
needs for the Zhodani; The 3I doesn't really NEED expansion room for the<BR>
first one. On the interstellar scale, basics of resources don't make for<BR>
enough of a prize to justify the war. Next comes Politcal Will and<BR>
Ideology; here we find a fit to the canon. The only reason for the war<BR>
would be to establish and maintain a firm border, so as to prevent<BR>
"Imperialization" of the border areas.<BR>
<BR>
Likewise, the Interstellar wars, in the days of the Vilani Imperium, are<BR>
not so much about resources as "Manifest Destiny". The VI seems to have a<BR>
desire to rull all of mankind. The Terran Confed cannot threaten the VI as<BR>
a whole. At least, they could not do so in any meaningful military way<BR>
during any single war. The whole issue is one of gaining enough to<BR>
consolidate, and gain some more after the consolidation. The Plague of<BR>
Duskir changed the ballance immensely; The TC, which had NO CHANCE of<BR>
peaceful long-term co-existance, was able to defeat the decimated VI Navy.<BR>
From the perspective of the VI, the "Upstarts" were just a threat, one that<BR>
kepttaking more and more, and needed to be stopped, and then, as was their<BR>
standing manifest destiny, erradicated as an interstellar-nation-state,<BR>
integrated, and culturally subsumed.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm... I think I see a pattern here...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:30:00 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/20/99 7:01 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Just consider that given the faults all thru California, and the 3000+<BR>
> year timescale, expect that anything west of the main fault lines could<BR>
> be as much as a few *miles* north of where it is now.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting point, and I suppose the same holds true along other fault lines<BR>
(at least the sideways sliding types), and other geological activity would<BR>
have changed the terrain as well. Like the chain Hawaii. Aren't the<BR>
Himmalayas still rising?  Has anyone considered or actually mapped such a<BR>
"far future Terra," and what all should be taken into consideration? Are<BR>
there canonical (or non-canonical) refs to metroplexes or superstructures on<BR>
Earth, or lasting war damage? Has the ecology changed at all, have<BR>
extraterrestrial life forms entered our biosphere? Oh my, what a can of<BR>
worms! Joy! ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:30:43 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
On 12/21/99 at 01:26 AM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, for those of us in the Gulf South, there's always CoastCon, in<BR>
>March 2000....<BR>
<BR>
Exactly, where and when! <BR>
<BR>
I get a spring break sometime in March.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:34:34 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Scumbags<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/20/99 7:21 PM, gmgoffin@yahoo.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, they say that at least in some neighborhoods of<BR>
> Glisten, the most likely reason a cop is searching the<BR>
> boot of a grav speeder is the combination of (1) the<BR>
> driver is a vargr, (2) the grav speeder is too new or<BR>
> expensive or both, and/or (3) it's not a vargr<BR>
> neighborhood.  I'm not saying it happens, or that it<BR>
> happens here, but I've heard it could happen on<BR>
> Glisten.  Or Jesedipere.  Or Mora.  Or Regina.  Or<BR>
> Jewell.  Or even Efate.<BR>
<BR>
Gawd, I'm dyinng here. That is FAR too funny. Somebody is bound to splort.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:52:59 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: CoastCon (was: Re: SF Trav game)<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 12/21/99 at 01:26 AM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Of course, for those of us in the Gulf South, there's always CoastCon, in<BR>
> >March 2000....<BR>
> <BR>
> Exactly, where and when!<BR>
> <BR>
> I get a spring break sometime in March.<BR>
<BR>
24-26 March 2000, in Biloxi, Mississippi, at the Coliseum (within sight<BR>
of the Gulf Coast).  See the followin URL for details (still a bit<BR>
sketchy at this point):<BR>
<BR>
http://www.coastcon.org/<BR>
<BR>
Note that a traditional event at CoastCon is the Porno Patrol's BLT<BR>
Dance. ("BLT" stands for Black tie, Lingerie, and Toga.  You must be<BR>
attired in one of those three fashions to be admitted to the dance.) <BR>
(BTW, the Porno Patrol is a subgroup of New Orleans fandom, admission to<BR>
which is by invitation only.  [No, I'm not yet a member.])<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 00:33:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: The Death of Q<BR>
<BR>
    Tonight, I have learned that Q aka Desmond Llewelyn, has died in a car<BR>
crash outside of London, Enland.  Let us all take a moment out, to morn this<BR>
great actor.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1982 23:49:43 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Calendar compliance<BR>
<BR>
> From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
> Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav: I envision worlds like Psaydi useing the sidereal year rather than<BR>
> the imperial year for record keeping. Religios dictatorships would most<BR>
<BR>
This is an interesting problem for the office of calendar compliance.  I<BR>
would expect that a rule of reason would apply in general in the<BR>
Imperium, to the effect that a world is considered in compliance if the<BR>
Imperial calendar is used in all official communications and in all<BR>
interstellar communications (i.e., communications with interstellar<BR>
traders, via xboat, etc.).  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:48:23 +0100<BR>
From: Holger Kadlez <Paradin@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella schrieb:<BR>
> <BR>
> Via electronic medium on 12/20/99 7:01 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Just consider that given the faults all thru California, and the 3000+<BR>
> > year timescale, expect that anything west of the main fault lines could<BR>
> > be as much as a few *miles* north of where it is now.<BR>
> <BR>
> Interesting point, and I suppose the same holds true along other fault lines<BR>
> (at least the sideways sliding types), and other geological activity would<BR>
> have changed the terrain as well. Like the chain Hawaii. Aren't the<BR>
> Himmalayas still rising?  Has anyone considered or actually mapped such a<BR>
> "far future Terra," and what all should be taken into consideration? Are<BR>
> there canonical (or non-canonical) refs to metroplexes or superstructures on<BR>
> Earth, or lasting war damage? Has the ecology changed at all, have<BR>
> extraterrestrial life forms entered our biosphere? Oh my, what a can of<BR>
> worms! Joy! ;)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hello my friend,<BR>
<BR>
try to check out the Solomani & Aslan - Guide, it will answer a lot<BR>
(if not most) of these questions. <BR>
<BR>
Bye<BR>
	Holger Paradin Kadlez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 02:59:14 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Death of Q<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>     Tonight, I have learned that Q aka Desmond Llewelyn, has died in a car<BR>
> crash outside of London, England.  Let us all take a moment out, to mourn this<BR>
> great actor.<BR>
<BR>
Here's the URL from the AP site:<BR>
<BR>
http://wire.ap.org/APnews/center_story.html?FRONTID=EUROPE&STORYID=APIS71EKT180<BR>
<BR>
A toast:  To the greatest gadgeteer this side of Famille Spofulam - Q.<BR>
\~/<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:25:08 +0200<BR>
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi><BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
"Jim & Peta Lawrie" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> A nice survival weapon for the IISS would be a bullpup 5mm/12Gauge <BR>
> combo survival weapon.<BR>
<BR>
> Bullpup config<BR>
> 5mm semi-auto, caseless <BR>
> 12 gauge semi-auto, cased or caseless<BR>
<BR>
	Hmm. A self-loading bullpup version of Crossfire MK-1?<BR>
<BR>
	http://www.crossfirellc.com/<BR>
<BR>
	A bullpup version would be tight design, but it could be done <BR>
	today using 12-gauge inertia-lock shotgun (Benelli M3T) with a <BR>
	box magazine and underslung 5.56x45 mm rifle. The resulting <BR>
	weapon might resemble a light version of H&K OICW<BR>
<BR>
"Sethkimmel" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Query: How do lefties use it? Granted it's caseless, but.... I look at <BR>
> pictures of modern bullpup weapons, and it looks like a lefty would <BR>
> have his/her face up against the ejector port.<BR>
<BR>
	Bullpup weapons may have reversible ejection port (FA-MAS, Steyr <BR>
	AUG) or eject the spend brass downwards (FN P90). I have <BR>
	designed a bullpup rile (7.62x39 mm) with modified Kalashnicov <BR>
	action which ejects spend brass downwards from a port _behind_ <BR>
	the magazine.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
      Antti Lahtinen                lahtinen@ee.tut.fi<BR>
      Researcher, MSc (Eng)         http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:36:41 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: England<BR>
...<BR>
>>  Unless you count the Glorious Revolution, but it's perhaps a bit impolite :><BR>
><BR>
>Assuming that you're referring to Cromwell's revolution:<BR>
...<BR>
>Admittedly, the monarchy was restored by a claimant from overseas, but<BR>
>this was not a conquest in the same sense as, say, Germany's conquest of<BR>
>France in AD 1940.<BR>
<BR>
  The Restoration in 1660 was of the legitimate King; the "Revolution" in<BR>
1688 was the collapse of the then-current regime to a foreign prince. A<BR>
foreign prince who brought a substantial army with him; the fact that the<BR>
challenge was not taken up doesn't change the dubious nature of the claim<BR>
that no invasion took place, but that's more something for the Brits to<BR>
whine about :><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 02:45:31 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Death of Q<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>Here's the URL from the AP site:<BR>
><BR>
>http://wire.ap.org/APnews/center_story.html?FRONTID=EUROPE&STORYID=APIS71EK<BR>
T180<BR>
><BR>
>A toast:  To the greatest gadgeteer this side of Famille Spofulam - Q.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    A toast:  To the greatest gadgeteer, ever.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:04:21 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Ethnicity<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Leonard<BR>
> Erickson<BR>
> Sent: Sunday, 19 December 1999 12:42 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Ethnicity<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In mail, traveller@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Via electronic medium on 12/18/99 11:10 AM, <BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> So, say for example, Solomani and Vilani can produce viable offspring,<BR>
> >> and Zhodani and Vilani can also, but Solomani and Zhodani *can't*.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Interesting, do you mean they produce sterile offspring or none at all?<BR>
> <BR>
> Sterile "mules" are more likely, but if the drift has been large<BR>
> enough, you won't get any live births, and if it's much greater than<BR>
> *that*, you won't get fertilization.<BR>
> <BR>
> > What other canonical crossbreeding is there?<BR>
> <BR>
> No idea if the topic has ever been mentioned in canon.<BR>
> <BR>
Just as a matter of interest not all mules are sterile<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:20:28 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
At 17:36 -0500 20/12/99, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
> > A quick outline would be<BR>
> > (0) Britain is conscripting british (and occasional American) soliders out<BR>
> > of British ships. America doesn't like this. Also, Britain is blocking<BR>
> > American trade with France (more legitimately).<BR>
><BR>
>Well, there _was_ the minor problem that the British Navy was also<BR>
>stopping and searching US-flagged merchants, and pretty much impressing<BR>
>anyone they felt like.<BR>
<BR>
AFAIK the RN has never used Dragons? Dragoons maybe, but not Dragons...<BR>
<BR>
Dom (Obscure McCaffery reference)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:09:37 -0800<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: San Francisco Trav game<BR>
<BR>
At 01:43 AM 12/21/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: San Francisco Trav game<BR>
><BR>
>Guys, I had a hell of a grant proposal to finish today, I came home to find<BR>
>out that the cat has had lots of fun in my absence, and I haven't finished<BR>
>making the masters for my nengajo (New Year's Cards)!<BR>
><BR>
>Pleeeeeeeeeeeease have another get together at the pub, I can't make it<BR>
>tonight!  I am too tired and Hiroshi wants to talk...<BR>
<BR>
I had a good time hanging out with Ross tonight, and many beers were drank <BR>
for the cause. ;)<BR>
<BR>
Ross and I were talking about the possibility of a once a month game in the <BR>
Bay Area, however nothing was really decided.  We had a good time talking <BR>
about favorite games, and styles of play.  If people are serious about <BR>
getting together and playing a once a month game in the SF area, then I <BR>
would recommend getting ahold of me at reverendkeith@hotmail.com and <BR>
sorting all this out.<BR>
<BR>
Obviously, I am curious as to what people would like to play (G:T, CT, MT, <BR>
something else?), but I am more curious if there is actually a desire by <BR>
fellow SF TML'ers to start up and sustain a game. . .<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
        Everything you do is Zen  -- Bodhidharma<BR>
_____________________________________________________________ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 22:24:05 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, 21 December 1999 8:23<BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>"Jim & Peta Lawrie" wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> A nice survival weapon for the IISS would be a bullpup 5mm/12Gauge<BR>
>> combo survival weapon.<BR>
><BR>
>> Bullpup config<BR>
>> 5mm semi-auto, caseless<BR>
>> 12 gauge semi-auto, cased or caseless<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm. A self-loading bullpup version of Crossfire MK-1?<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.crossfirellc.com/<BR>
><BR>
> A bullpup version would be tight design, but it could be done<BR>
> today using 12-gauge inertia-lock shotgun (Benelli M3T) with a<BR>
> box magazine and underslung 5.56x45 mm rifle. The resulting<BR>
> weapon might resemble a light version of H&K OICW<BR>
<BR>
    That's the exact thing I was thinking of! Except maybe having the .223<BR>
barrel on top for a better accuracy. Unfortunately MegaTraveller doesn't<BR>
give values for HE and HEAP shotgun loads and I'm leery of extrapolating<BR>
from the Assault Rocket Launcher in case I make a super weapon and blow out<BR>
the campaign balance. Shotguns are the most tolerated firearms by law level<BR>
and if I make a wonder bullet for them everyone will want one, it'll make a<BR>
mockery of banning the other guns. Still, if the ARL is 10mm and the<BR>
standard 12 guage is 18mm, what would the ratio of explosive power be?<BR>
    Jim L.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:33:46 EST<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
I haven't seen the map for years, but if I recall correctly, the globe mapped <BR>
out for "Invasion Earth" appeared to indicate a significant rise in the sea <BR>
level between then and now.  It is possible my memory is playing tricks on me.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:42:35 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
Rick Stump writes:<BR>
<BR>
>Sorry, guys; I have been replying off-list so far, but this is too much.<BR>
>[...]<BR>
>And, again unlike an earlier post, the American navy did not have a limited <BR>
>impact. The new American frigates inflicted so much damage that the British <BR>
>navy was under orders to flee unless the American ships were outnumbered. <BR>
<BR>
I too have kept quiet because this really has no place on the TML, but the<BR>
subject is one that interests me and I just can't let this go.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, one of the reasons why the American frigates were so succesful was<BR>
that British frigate captains couldn't flee from them. The Admiralty expected<BR>
any British ship to be able to outfight anything in its own class. A frigate<BR>
could flee from a ship-of-the-line, but if it fled from another frigate the<BR>
captain risked being hung for cowardice. At the very least he could expect<BR>
to be beached. It made no difference that the 'frigate' was larger and had<BR>
scantlings like a ship-of-the-line. It may be that Admiralty orders eventually<BR>
allowed small British frigates to avoid action against American 44s, although<BR>
I have not heard of that. Do you have a source for this allegation?<BR>
<BR>
In any case, the British eventually got their act together and proceeded to<BR>
sweep the seas clear of American shipping. I refer you to C.S. Forester's<BR>
_The Age of Fighting Sail_ for a thorough exploration of the seaborne side<BR>
of the war.<BR>
<BR>
>there were three occasions when American ships destroyed three british ships <BR>
>in one day and a single American ship captured 10 British ships in one <BR>
>month. That's pretty impressive.<BR>
<BR>
Unless you're talking about American privateers capturing British merchantmen,<BR>
then you are misinformed. The American Navy didn't capture or destroy 19<BR>
British naval vessels in the whole war. I doubt they even _fought_ 19 naval<BR>
engagements in the whole war.<BR>
<BR>
>While the U.S. had suffered some early losses and embarrassing defeats, they<BR>
>certainly had the initiative, especially at sea. <BR>
<BR>
That just isn't true. At the time peace was signed very few American Navy<BR>
ships were at liberty. Most had been captured, destroyed (some of them by <BR>
their own crew to prevent the British from capturing them) or blockaded.<BR>
I'm not sure a single frigate was at liberty, though I may be wrong about<BR>
that; a few sloops is all, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
>This may explain why the British were willing to return their strategic <BR>
>gains - if they were winning, why do that?<BR>
<BR>
The British public was tired after two decades of war, income tax was 4<BR>
shillings in the pound, and Wellington had expressed doubts that America<BR>
could ever be completely defeated in a land war (certainly not without an<BR>
effort similar in scope to the one that had defeated Napoleon), and the RN<BR>
no longer felt the need to impress American sailors or blockade European<BR>
ports.<BR>
<BR>
If America won the War of 1812 then it was by default; the other side quit<BR>
and went home...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
  "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the<BR>
'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".<BR>
                  Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:20:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Calendar compliance<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>> Subject: [none]<BR>
><BR>
>> Ob Trav: I envision worlds like Psaydi useing the sidereal year rather than<BR>
>> the imperial year for record keeping. Religios dictatorships would most<BR>
><BR>
> This is an interesting problem for the office of calendar compliance.  I<BR>
> would expect that a rule of reason would apply in general in the<BR>
> Imperium, to the effect that a world is considered in compliance if the<BR>
> Imperial calendar is used in all official communications and in all<BR>
> interstellar communications (i.e., communications with interstellar<BR>
> traders, via xboat, etc.).  <BR>
<BR>
Frankly, it's a virtual *certainty* that most worlds will have local<BR>
clocks and local calendars *in addition to* the Imperial ones. The<BR>
exceptions will be worlds where the local day is unreasonably long. And<BR>
even then, they'll *track* it unless they are so far from their star<BR>
that it makes no *difference* whether it is day or night when you are<BR>
on the surface.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1541<BR>
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